@IKnight: yep, the moe-tsundere connection still eludes me. I don’t understand the moe fascination, and I’m happy to stay in ignorance! ^_^ Actually, Teeif’s comment explains it quite well…

@Teeif: Well observed - I guess it’s appealing to the ‘playing hard to get’ tactic so thanks for pointing it out. NGE has a lot to answer for in character and plot cliches actually…it pays homage to a lot of the old classic shows but started all too many conventions of its own. I am still following Clannad BTW, but the widescreen versions (which look better on my laptop’s screen) are a few weeks behind! Maybe Kyou’s appeal lies in the fact that she’s the only member of the cast aside from Tomoyo who stands up for herself… :p

I think your point that Tsundere facilitates a level of depth in characters is a key point because its downright humanistic for even the most hardnosed tsundere to have a softer, private side. Tsundere are just normal people but with a tougth exterior instead of say, shy (like the contrast between the Clannad Fujibayashi Twins, Ryou and Kyou).

The MOE appeal of this is that everyone wants to become the person who the soft inner side of a Tsundere opens up to. Like if Shana acts tough and rougth around everyone else except she comes crying to your shoulder when the shit hits the fan, wouldn’t you feel special?

On the other hand, you don’t want the characters to essentially be copies of other characters. But even then I’m not sure how offensive that is. I wonder if it isn’t a question of predictability. Ideally I like watching shows where the characters do stuff that surprises me, but doesn’t seem really out of character.

@Peter S: the Kaname/Sousuke dynamic kinda annoyed me in the series but it positively shone in FUMOFFU. Taking the comedy side of FMP and giving it a full series was a wise move!

@Cameron Probert: character archetypes are funny things. Sometimes you don’t notice them unless they are the character’s principal defining feature. I don’t know really, but it’s certainly worth thinking about. The Major as a tsundere? Yeah, she certainly has that side to her, now you mention it!

@IKnight: I can’t see much of a moe/tsundere connection, although that could be because I’m not familiar with the moe thing to begin with (it’s a poorly-defined and often-misused term, which doesn’t help matters). I suppose there could be some overlap between the soft dere-dere side and the cutesy aspect of moe, but then my own view of moe is that of dependency, clumsiness and similar, which is a separate thing to me. If it is after all separate, there are a lot of other examples - I guess I’m thinking about how tsundere traits can contribute to a character’s overall personality, rather than BE the character’s personality, if that makes any sense at all.

But if it isn’t inextricably linked to moe, then I suppose an argument could be made that a number of ‘tough outside, soft inside’ or ‘tough at first, warming later’ characters - particularly older characters - count.

I wonder would Kusinagi from GitS: Standalone Complex count as tsundere? Or Balsa from Seirei no Moribito? And for the male side of things, how about Roy Revant from Solty Rei or Saiga from Speed Grapher?