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	<title>Comments on: Kaiba 3 and 4: the value of memory</title>
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	<link>http://www.concretebadger.net/blog/2008/05/17/kaiba-3-and-4-the-value-of-memory/</link>
	<description>Get decultured</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 02:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Kaiba - Episode 4 Review &#171; The null set</title>
		<link>http://www.concretebadger.net/blog/2008/05/17/kaiba-3-and-4-the-value-of-memory/#comment-44242</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaiba - Episode 4 Review &#171; The null set</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 01:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.concretebadger.net/blog/?p=508#comment-44242</guid>
		<description>[...] slightly late, review of episode 4 of Kaiba. Some good reviews already written by other [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] slightly late, review of episode 4 of Kaiba. Some good reviews already written by other [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.concretebadger.net/blog/2008/05/17/kaiba-3-and-4-the-value-of-memory/#comment-43022</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 15:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.concretebadger.net/blog/?p=508#comment-43022</guid>
		<description>@Mike: the questions regarding what makes us 'us', as it were, are becoming more and more relevant as science and technology are becoming increasingly able to replicate and replace body parts and, I suspect, other things too (cyberbrain, anyone?). Now is a good chance to pimp the movie Chrysalis - a recent French cyberpunk effort that makes nice use of questioning how memory affects identity. It's a cracking sci-fi piece.

@Chris: in regards to human interaction, for me at least the makings of 'attraction' are an inseparable combination of appearance and mind - even when I can say someone *looks* attractive, I can only click with them on an emotional level when I feel that we're on a similar wavelength. Cheers for the heads-up on the Rediscovery of Man - I'd also recommend (if you're into very profound but laugh-out-loud romcom films) The Man with Two Brains!

@usagijen: as much as I've distanced myself from episodic blogging in recent months, I could take that approach to Kaiba if only time and energy permitted! Every ep so far is less of an 'episode' to set up the next and more of a mini-film in of itself, each with its own dramas and issues. Sasa's post raised a great point though, which had me thinking for ages: if your bad memories were to be removed, would your good ones feel as good afterwards? Seems like a fundamental flaw to the mindset of the people in the Kaiba universe, which I hope the series follows up on in later episodes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mike: the questions regarding what makes us &#8216;us&#8217;, as it were, are becoming more and more relevant as science and technology are becoming increasingly able to replicate and replace body parts and, I suspect, other things too (cyberbrain, anyone?). Now is a good chance to pimp the movie Chrysalis - a recent French cyberpunk effort that makes nice use of questioning how memory affects identity. It&#8217;s a cracking sci-fi piece.</p>
<p>@Chris: in regards to human interaction, for me at least the makings of &#8216;attraction&#8217; are an inseparable combination of appearance and mind - even when I can say someone *looks* attractive, I can only click with them on an emotional level when I feel that we&#8217;re on a similar wavelength. Cheers for the heads-up on the Rediscovery of Man - I&#8217;d also recommend (if you&#8217;re into very profound but laugh-out-loud romcom films) The Man with Two Brains!</p>
<p>@usagijen: as much as I&#8217;ve distanced myself from episodic blogging in recent months, I could take that approach to Kaiba if only time and energy permitted! Every ep so far is less of an &#8216;episode&#8217; to set up the next and more of a mini-film in of itself, each with its own dramas and issues. Sasa&#8217;s post raised a great point though, which had me thinking for ages: if your bad memories were to be removed, would your good ones feel as good afterwards? Seems like a fundamental flaw to the mindset of the people in the Kaiba universe, which I hope the series follows up on in later episodes.</p>
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		<title>By: usagijen</title>
		<link>http://www.concretebadger.net/blog/2008/05/17/kaiba-3-and-4-the-value-of-memory/#comment-43009</link>
		<dc:creator>usagijen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 07:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.concretebadger.net/blog/?p=508#comment-43009</guid>
		<description>Another wonderful Kaiba post~

the mind/body dualism theme of Kaiba can really drown you with the amount of insights (and questions?) you can gather from 3 episodes alone. I do believe that the mind and body cannot exist independently of each other, because both of these make up our individuality. Although our consciousness is one of the facets that make us unique, it should be noted that other people identify us first with our physical looks, the tangible part of our being.

As for Chroniko's aunt, I had the impression that she supposedly rid herself of those [sad] memories of the past, but then it somehow creeped in (the memories regenerated), and by the time she realized how precious those memories are, it was already too late. What happened in episode 3 served as a reminder that people should not have any control over their memories, because our judgment of whether these are 'pleasant' or 'unpleasant' is based on our feelings. Our perception of memories changes over time, and ideally, we'll learn to embrace both these positive and negative experiences in our past, and see them in a positive light.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another wonderful Kaiba post~</p>
<p>the mind/body dualism theme of Kaiba can really drown you with the amount of insights (and questions?) you can gather from 3 episodes alone. I do believe that the mind and body cannot exist independently of each other, because both of these make up our individuality. Although our consciousness is one of the facets that make us unique, it should be noted that other people identify us first with our physical looks, the tangible part of our being.</p>
<p>As for Chroniko&#8217;s aunt, I had the impression that she supposedly rid herself of those [sad] memories of the past, but then it somehow creeped in (the memories regenerated), and by the time she realized how precious those memories are, it was already too late. What happened in episode 3 served as a reminder that people should not have any control over their memories, because our judgment of whether these are &#8216;pleasant&#8217; or &#8216;unpleasant&#8217; is based on our feelings. Our perception of memories changes over time, and ideally, we&#8217;ll learn to embrace both these positive and negative experiences in our past, and see them in a positive light.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.concretebadger.net/blog/2008/05/17/kaiba-3-and-4-the-value-of-memory/#comment-43002</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 00:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.concretebadger.net/blog/?p=508#comment-43002</guid>
		<description>Martin, very good post, I thought the very same question about the link between your body and your memories after watching episodes 3&#38;4 of &lt;em&gt;Kaiba&lt;/em&gt;.

I think that the link between the body and love are inseparatable, when I've been truly in love with a person it was more than just the mind and personality I loved, it was also the touch, texture, smell, sound, of the other person's body.

Those sensations that I cherished about the other person were experienced through my body, and I highly doubt that if I swapped my body or she swapped her body it would be the same as before, it might be close but it wouldn't be the same.

Nice P.K. Dick reference, another author that covers a similar storyline is &lt;em&gt;Cordwainer Smith&lt;/em&gt;, in his collection of short stories (&lt;em&gt;The Rediscovery of Man 1993&lt;/em&gt;) man has acheived near immortality and totally dominates the galaxy, he treats the under-people (non-human intelligent lifeforms)like animals, but since mankind has lost it's passion for daring, love, and justice, mankind in the end becomes less human and noble than the under-people that they rule. 

The under-people because they are not immortal live their lives with a passion and vigor that shames and confuses the immortals. Mankind in it's quest for immortality and stability has lost it's humanity, they forgot the connection between the mind, the precious and fragile body, and the good Earth it was born from.

I feel that if someday we can swap memories and bodies like in &lt;em&gt;Kaiba&lt;/em&gt;, or live in the wired like in &lt;em&gt;Lain&lt;/em&gt;, or get machine bodies like in &lt;em&gt;Galaxy Express 999&lt;/em&gt;, we might still call ourselves human but in reality we would be something different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin, very good post, I thought the very same question about the link between your body and your memories after watching episodes 3&amp;4 of <em>Kaiba</em>.</p>
<p>I think that the link between the body and love are inseparatable, when I&#8217;ve been truly in love with a person it was more than just the mind and personality I loved, it was also the touch, texture, smell, sound, of the other person&#8217;s body.</p>
<p>Those sensations that I cherished about the other person were experienced through my body, and I highly doubt that if I swapped my body or she swapped her body it would be the same as before, it might be close but it wouldn&#8217;t be the same.</p>
<p>Nice P.K. Dick reference, another author that covers a similar storyline is <em>Cordwainer Smith</em>, in his collection of short stories (<em>The Rediscovery of Man 1993</em>) man has acheived near immortality and totally dominates the galaxy, he treats the under-people (non-human intelligent lifeforms)like animals, but since mankind has lost it&#8217;s passion for daring, love, and justice, mankind in the end becomes less human and noble than the under-people that they rule. </p>
<p>The under-people because they are not immortal live their lives with a passion and vigor that shames and confuses the immortals. Mankind in it&#8217;s quest for immortality and stability has lost it&#8217;s humanity, they forgot the connection between the mind, the precious and fragile body, and the good Earth it was born from.</p>
<p>I feel that if someday we can swap memories and bodies like in <em>Kaiba</em>, or live in the wired like in <em>Lain</em>, or get machine bodies like in <em>Galaxy Express 999</em>, we might still call ourselves human but in reality we would be something different.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.concretebadger.net/blog/2008/05/17/kaiba-3-and-4-the-value-of-memory/#comment-42988</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 17:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.concretebadger.net/blog/?p=508#comment-42988</guid>
		<description>Great post, Martin. I think you hit some very specific points that are really valuable--and helped me see another dimension of how the visual style matches the theme. There's a very "fluid" way people and objects move in this world, and it corresponds to the fluid nature of human identity. 

Traditionally speaking, individual human identity has been premised on consciousness/mind/soul (the immaterial "inner" part of ourselves), memory, and the physical body; we think of those things as what provides us continuity--the guarantee that I am the the same person as I was yesterday. Kaiba's world has taken away the stability of the body and of memory, leaving only consciousness--which is subjective, scientifically unmeasurable and extremely difficult to define. Even for theologians. :) Christian philosophers have also often added the memory of &lt;em&gt;God&lt;/em&gt; as the one thing that holds all of it together and keeps you as you in existence. That's how I viewed the ending of Lain, as you read in my long-ago article.

I have a friend who is very interested in bioethics, and he acknowledges how sticky these questions are already starting to become. We know, for instance, that the cells in our body are wholly replaced every few years; technically, you have a totally new body. People can get implants and have body parts like the heart, arms, legs, etc., replaced if they don't function properly. Is the lack of brain wave activity and lack of consciousness enough to declare a person "dead" and pull the plug (c.f. Terri Schiavo)? This is probably where a lot of future discussions will converge and Kaiba is riding high on that wave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Martin. I think you hit some very specific points that are really valuable&#8211;and helped me see another dimension of how the visual style matches the theme. There&#8217;s a very &#8220;fluid&#8221; way people and objects move in this world, and it corresponds to the fluid nature of human identity. </p>
<p>Traditionally speaking, individual human identity has been premised on consciousness/mind/soul (the immaterial &#8220;inner&#8221; part of ourselves), memory, and the physical body; we think of those things as what provides us continuity&#8211;the guarantee that I am the the same person as I was yesterday. Kaiba&#8217;s world has taken away the stability of the body and of memory, leaving only consciousness&#8211;which is subjective, scientifically unmeasurable and extremely difficult to define. Even for theologians. <img src='http://www.concretebadger.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> Christian philosophers have also often added the memory of <em>God</em> as the one thing that holds all of it together and keeps you as you in existence. That&#8217;s how I viewed the ending of Lain, as you read in my long-ago article.</p>
<p>I have a friend who is very interested in bioethics, and he acknowledges how sticky these questions are already starting to become. We know, for instance, that the cells in our body are wholly replaced every few years; technically, you have a totally new body. People can get implants and have body parts like the heart, arms, legs, etc., replaced if they don&#8217;t function properly. Is the lack of brain wave activity and lack of consciousness enough to declare a person &#8220;dead&#8221; and pull the plug (c.f. Terri Schiavo)? This is probably where a lot of future discussions will converge and Kaiba is riding high on that wave.</p>
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